How White Christianity Turned Against Democracy | Robert P. Jones
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Robert P. Jones says American democracy is backsliding, and white Christianity is helping push it in that direction.
In his new book, Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation After the Christian Turn Against Democracy, Jones confronts a difficult contradiction: among white evangelicals, greater church attendance does not necessarily produce less support for Christian nationalism, anti-immigrant attitudes, or Donald Trump. In some cases, the relationship runs in the opposite direction.
So what happens when the institutions meant to form Christians in the teachings of Jesus begin producing a politics built around hierarchy, exclusion, and power?
Jones joins us to talk about how race and culture shape biblical interpretation, why some Christians are now attacking empathy itself, what American Christianity inherited from slavery and Jim Crow, and why he believes the country has moved beyond ordinary partisan disagreement into a fight over democracy itself.
Drawing on Martin Niemöller and the failures of the German church in the 1930s, Jones ends with an urgent question: when future generations ask what Christians did in this moment, what will the answer be?
BOOK
Book: Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation After the Christian Turn Against Democracy
https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781250431134
GUEST BIO
Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute, or PRRI, and a New York Times bestselling author whose work focuses on religion, race, politics, and democracy. His books include The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy, White Too Long, The End of White Christian America, and his newest book, Backslide. Jones holds a Ph.D. in religion from Emory University and writes the Redeeming Democracy newsletter
In his new book, Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation After the Christian Turn Against Democracy, Jones confronts a difficult contradiction: among white evangelicals, greater church attendance does not necessarily produce less support for Christian nationalism, anti-immigrant attitudes, or Donald Trump. In some cases, the relationship runs in the opposite direction.
So what happens when the institutions meant to form Christians in the teachings of Jesus begin producing a politics built around hierarchy, exclusion, and power?
Jones joins us to talk about how race and culture shape biblical interpretation, why some Christians are now attacking empathy itself, what American Christianity inherited from slavery and Jim Crow, and why he believes the country has moved beyond ordinary partisan disagreement into a fight over democracy itself.
Drawing on Martin Niemöller and the failures of the German church in the 1930s, Jones ends with an urgent question: when future generations ask what Christians did in this moment, what will the answer be?
BOOK
Book: Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation After the Christian Turn Against Democracy
https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781250431134
GUEST BIO
Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute, or PRRI, and a New York Times bestselling author whose work focuses on religion, race, politics, and democracy. His books include The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy, White Too Long, The End of White Christian America, and his newest book, Backslide. Jones holds a Ph.D. in religion from Emory University and writes the Redeeming Democracy newsletter
@5150cappie
Empathy is one of the pillars of love. It is literally impossible to love without empathy. The dismissive and callous often cross dresses cruelty as “tough love” . That isn’t legitimate responsible tough love, but a symptom of spiritual sloth that avoids the work of love.
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@barbcarrier3702
In my 80+ years did I ever think our constutuon and democracy would be in danger. We must all stand against this racist hate.
8 likes
@melwlightbody
I just saw this, subscribed, and even bought the book. I am also sharing it because it will encourage other Christians who are struggling with what happened to the White evangelical church. Thank you so much to you and Mr. Jones.
Black evangelicals and white evangelicals do vote differently. The fact that most black evangelicals voted democratic is what first took me out of my white-culture evangelical beliefs. As I dug into Scripture more deeply, I saw the very biblical reason why. It is clear to me now. I don't understand why more ppl in the white evangelical church (WEC) don't care and investigate why.
25 years ago, I used to think that when a black Christian becomes a conservative, they had chosen the right path. To this day, many of my parents' generation and mine still think this. That's the reason many white Christians lionized Ben Carson and Herman Cain, etc. These represented the few black men who finally saw the light. I thought the rest were deluded—when it was clearly my culture that was. I have a dear relative who thinks black Christian conservatives' opinions on the culture represent the truth for all black Christians. These men spoke of the harm inflicted by Democratic policies, which they used to justify voting against them.
I don't know how to get others out of the WEC culture but I hope this book will help me. (PS. My husband I actually see opening WEC's eyes as part of our ministry.) Wish us luck.
@pattyquinn8111
Good program and thanks, but re your headline, I'd say that White Christianity has turned against Christianity as well as democracy. They're hostile to, you know, welcome the stranger, love your neighbor, reject hate and violence, and the like.
14 likes
@thetimeisnowdb
Aqesone discussion guys. Thank you! ❤🇦🇺
2 likes
@marisolmagana9644
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. - 1 Peter 5.8, the enemy doesn't attack the gentiles, those in the world, they are on his hands, they do what he wants, he is against the people of God 😔😔😔
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@RogerMonger-md9cw
Thank you. Great talk.
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@rjakobsen2023
Thank you all three for taking our country's future seriously! I will find your new book.
If you haven't read it already please read this:
"An indigenous people's history of the United States - for young people", Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz. Adapted by Jean Mendoza and Debbie Reese.
The perspective is changed.
You could invite the authors unto your show.
Btw. as a kid growing up in northern Denmark I was always assigned the role of the "Indian". My name was "Flying Arrow". I was always proud of being an Indian. I felt smarter than the stupid 🤠.
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@ZombieRyushu
These religions are going to be an issue as long as they exist for Democratic societies. During the enlightenment we tried to get rid of them.
6 likes
@GlendaBixler
Used today to close announcement of Backslide at Book Readers Heaven 9/9/26
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@brian.the.archivist
I'd recommend listeners check out "Jesus and John Wayne" as an excellent discussion of the coopting of evangelical Christianity for power by Republicans, or maybe the other way around.
I'd also argue as an elder millennial, where we are at is the logical result of what Republicans have been saying as long as I've been alive, so it's always odd to me that the people who voted to cut taxes where it was helping feed the hungry and tend to the sick, are surprised that the cruel rhetoric gets instantiated. Unless you thought your politicians were just blowing smoke and lying. In which case why'd you vote for a liar? Just some thoughts
5 likes
@patjohnston1644
Trump is the man of lawlessness, the American antichrist, the 1st rider of the White Horse of the apocalypse and the little horn of the beast proven by the prophecies he fulfills. Prophecy is like a puzzle, only the perfect fit fits or it is not, you can’t force a word to fit, no matter how hard you try. All the prophecy has to be 100% true and supported by God’s Word. “A prophecy is considered true when its predictions come to pass, aligns with established divine scripture (like the Bible), doesn't lead people to false gods, and ideally builds up, encourages, or comforts people, often by revealing God's character or will. Skeptics note that vague wording or the influence of expectations (self-fulfilling prophecy) can also create the appearance of truth, but believers look for concrete fulfillment and moral consistency.”
Revelation 13:1 The dragon (Trump) stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. (Mara Lago) It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns (Putin, XI, Ung, MBS Netanyahu, Al Assad, Lysenko, Orbán, Maduro and Mubarak) on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. (Trump has blasphemed the Lord many times) 2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. (Trump’s mouth is constantly roaring) The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. (The Presidency) 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. (Trump seemed to have received a fatal wound and healed) The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4 They worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?” The world says this daily about Trump). 5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 He opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. (Trump conquered God’s people, when he deluded him into worshiping him) And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. (America) 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life.
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@LastCallOutreachMinistry
I've never understood how so many people professing to be Christians support and defend Trump. I'm white, evangelical and Protestant but I detest Trump and his hateful rhetoric, and especially his authitarian agenda. We should do better, America.
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@josephtricomo
(PURPOSE OF LIFE)
GOD IS ONE! everyone who lives in the infinite realms of light advance the light.
we come out of the water; the womb- a new person. this is the first baptism where you get your eternal spirit. our purpose in the temporal are to be good stewards to each other & the planet. to create heaven on earth as it is in the light.
when we leave our body for the last time at transition we can tie up loose ends & travel the world till third sunrise ascension to the portal- the lake of fire on the sun.
those who remain are ghosts for a time in the outerdarkness because this world is no longer their proper dwelling.
(GOD ISNT RELIGIOUS. GOD IS GOOD).
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@christinajeans7325
You are spot on in that many put truth above love with devastating outcomes.
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@janettejones7822
I feel like Christan nationalism is more of a political movement that has used the church 'hagi, faith in the family, roberts' etc the platform served them along with the twist of the scofield bible and the revalation is what made evangelist take off. What I still don't get is how being cruel is so simple for people, just destruction that one reason I walked away because the people were so not even follow the word
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@DavidAnderson-v1u
49:30 I suggest you might have added that we have a uniparty bought off by big money, which doesn't represent the majority opinions, by a long shot.
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@christinajeans7325
Regarding white churches, far too many do not understand, nor are taught how to properly study the Bible and understand it's history. Many are basically Old Testament Christians and haven't advanced in their understanding of the whole Bible - especially regarding the New Covenant that Jesus initiated through His death and resurrection. Instead they focus and twist passages to highlight the harsh, legalistic practices of those time periods giving them permission to do those same things in pursuit of their present cultural & political ideology. It is very hard to find churches that truly teach the scriptures correctly. Also, the prosperity gospel movement has done a lot of damage by misleading followers to think God's love and purpose is to make one healthy, wealthy, and wise in a primary temporal way. It's not a self sacrificing, pick up your cross, and help the less fortunate by imitating Jesus type of Christianity.
It has promoted and justified a self serving type of life. They haven't ever experienced the true Jesus - they don't get it.
Also, they have been lead to believe, and prefer to believe, that the USA is the chosen kingdom of God.
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@rogermetzger7335
When some people read Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5, 6 & 7), they conclude that the kingdom of Jesus isn’t, never was and can never be a political kingdom. Such people are particularly influenced by the words of Jesus as described in Matthew 5:9 (Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God), John 18:36 (My kingdom is not of this world) and the ways Jesus sidestepped political questions (Luke 20:25 Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's) and offered advice about how to co-exist with the Romans. Under Roman law (angaria), an occupying Roman soldier had the legal right to force any Hebrew provincial to carry his heavy military gear for exactly one mile. Instead of advocating for violent resistance, Jesus instructed his followers, "If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles" (Matthew 5:41) Jesus did not treat the Romans as monsters to be avoided, but as individuals capable of faith. When a Roman centurion (a high-ranking military officer of the occupying army) approached Jesus to heal his paralyzed servant, Jesus praised the Roman's faith above anyone else in Judea and granted the healing request (Matthew 8:5–13). The Roman occupiers were universally viewed as the ultimate enemies of ethnic Hebrews. When Jesus preached, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:44), his audience would have immediately identified the Roman soldiers as the primary focus of Jesus’ instruction.
Clergy who encourage the above understanding of the gospel of Jesus include SOME Lutherans (especially in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ), SOME Anglicans/episcopalians, SOME United Methodists, SOME clergy of the Church of the Nazarene and Free Methodists and SOME Seventh-day Adventists. Historical puritanism evolved into modern denominations such as the United Church of Christ. In the United States, people whose theological roots are puritan tend to be politically centrist while their clergy are now more progressive.
If that interpretation of the teachings of Jesus appeals to you, I suggest trying to get well enough acquainted with some of the pastors of the above-mentioned denominations to determine whether they interpret the gospel of Jesus that way.
As long ago as the second, third or fourth century, some clergy realized it was easier to motivate people to do things if they could be imbued with fear or anger. That is still true today.
Animosity between the papacy and the protestants was alive and well in Ireland when John Darby developed his eschatology. I’d like to think one of his motives was to create a basis for reducing that animosity. He wrote that he was impressed by an idea that had been suggested during the Council of Trent - that prophetic symbols should be understood as referring to events or individuals in the future.
As near as I can tell, Cyrus Scofield adopted all or nearly all of John Darby’s eschatology. (Please let me know if there is evidence to the contrary.)
In the early twentieth century, McHenry Frowde was one of several British who had been discussing the advantages to the British of creating some kind of homeland for ethnic Hebrews. Frowde and Scofield met while Scofield was lecturing in Great Britain between 1902 and 1907. It didn’t take Frowde long to realize that Scofield’s eschatology would help encourage British laity to support the creation of a modern homeland for ethnic Hebrews. Frowde was one of the major editors for the Oxford University Press - which is why the Scofield Reference Bible was first published in 1909 by the Oxford University Press.
In the twenty-first century, many “conservative” clergy employ the Darby/Scofield interpretation of Bible prophecies as a way to encourage their congregations to think of war - particularly war in the Middle East - as a way to hasten the return of Jesus. Warmongering politicians, of course, find it helpful to exploit that interpretation of Bible prophecies to both justify military conflicts and encourage the spending of taxpayers’ money on military weapons and weapons platforms (especially if those politicians have stock in companies that make military weapons)
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People of good faith can have differences of opinion about theology or politics. There are, for example, at least five different methods of interpreting the prophecies of the Bible. Please consider the possibility that there may be some people who think the only alternative to the Darby/Scofield interpretation is to interpret the Bible as a collection of fables to be interpreted as allegories.
Please consider the possibility that it is better to interest such people in the history of Bible interpretation instead of only saying they are wrong. More about which on request.
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@jessechanley8194
We are not backsliding from democracy. The problem is wealthy people have always ruled. We still have to struggle to create democracy.
2 likes